Diluted Thinking
in Australian healthcare

Your Story Ep 29: Stephanie Messenger

Transcript of podcast interview.

Host: Ian Kath, Your Story Podcast
Guest: Stephanie Messenger, Healthy Lifestyles Naturally
Date: November 2008

[intro to podcast by Ian Kath omitted]

Ian: It's the 11th of November 2008 and I'm sitting in the eastern Brisbane suburb of Cleveland with Stephanie. And Stephanie's going to fill me in on a few things which I don't know much about and tell me a little bit about responsibility of the way we should be about ourselves and our health and she's got some quite strong opinions from what I've been told. So, let's have a bit of a chat, Stephanie. Tell me about yourself - what are you interested in?

Stephanie: Primarily I'm interested in nature and how nature dictates how we should be living. That leads to thinking about how our health and what we do to our health that is unnatural that gets us off the path and causes us to have disease.

So my main mission in life these days is to educate people about how to stay healthy.

Ian: Do you have a formal education process, are you a teacher in this, a naturopath?

Stephanie: No. I have no formal education.

Ian: Are you a practitioner?

Stephanie: No, I'm happy to say I'm not, so I don't have the responsibility.

I've been studying it for well over 30 years, although probably even longer because I was brought up in a natural way by my parents, when it wasn't really fashionable to be like that, either. We weren't hippies by any standards but my mother always made sure that we had food that wasn't processed other than the little bit of cooking she did to it. We lived a pretty natural life.

Ian: So you see yourself more as an advocate, I suppose.

Stephanie: An advocate for natural health.

Ian: So who are you fighting? Sounds like you.. sounds like a mission, it sounds like more than just an education process. Sounds almost like a crusade.

Stephanie: Well, I'm fighting against the ignorance that's out there, and that ignorance is continually supported by drug companies, by the medical industry and governments. Governments, through their ignorance ... if people have the information about how to stay healthy, they will be healthy, and we won't have the big problems with these multi-billion dollar health budgets that we can't meet.

Ian: So what are you doing to educate people? How you are promoting this?

Stephanie: We have two groups. We have Vaccination Awareness and Information Service which primarily just deals with the vaccination issue, which is a very big issue on its own.

Ian: Are you talking about all vaccinations here?

Stephanie: We focus mostly on children's vaccination, but we do touch a little bit on travel vaccines and things like flu shots. But the main interest I think is for children because they're the innocent victims of a lot of this.

Ian: Ok, so you've got two groups, that's one group.

Stephanie: Our sister group is Healthy Lifestyles Naturally. So we run support groups in Brisbane and Gold Coast and Sunshine Coast where we just get like-minded people, as in people who want to be raising their children in a natural, healthy way. So we get them together to support them. We usually have guest speakers come along and just give them ideas about what's out there, so if they do... a lot of the time they are practitioners who did give up their time to come and speak. People are often confused about what practitioner to go to if their child is unhealthy or if they have a certain problem. So we like to break down those barriers so that people have a wide view of natural health.

Ian: Have you got children of your own? Did you raise them in this way?

Stephanie: I did.

Ian: So when your kids got sick did they go to the doctor?

Stephanie: Nope.

Ian: Never?

Stephanie: My 24 year old went to the doctor once when he was 13 months old, and then he went when he was 12 or 13 and that was only because he had lots of moles on his back. They did a story on 60 Minutes, so I thought I'll just take him to get those moles checked out. Apart from that, until he was in his late teens and started drinking alcohol and all sorts of things like that which teenagers do, he stayed pretty healthy all of his life. He would get sick about once a year.

Ian: What, a cold?

Stephanie: No, it would usually be a raging fever and mucous and stuff like that, headaches and things. But, you know, that's just how the body cleans out, because everyone can take in a certain amount of toxins and we're taking them in whether we're leading a natural life or not.

Ian: So why not go to the doctor in that situation? Why not take him to the doctor, poor little fella's distressed and he's doing it hard and he's got a fever and parents worry.

Stephanie: He wasn't distressed, because he trusted that I could get him well. And I did.

Ian: But a lot of parents don't have that confidence. A lot of parents will go, they're concerned for their kid.

Stephanie: And that's why we're there to support them because they don't have the confidence and we don't tell people not to take their kids to the doctor. If they want to do that, that's fine. But we try to support them so that they have more confidence to handle basic things at home, not be running off to the doctor all the time for nearly nothing. And then they just get antiobiotics given to them when it's not even a relevant medication. And then the side effects for that and it just spirals then. So we try and educate them before their kids get sick; these are some things you can do if your child is getting a fever, then you don't need to run off to the doctor. That's a natural for the body to burn off bacteria. So that they're not fearing a fever and we just suggest that they give lots of water. But if they feel more comfortable going to the doctor, go to a doctor. Why not. We're not practitioners, we're just there to pass on information that has worked for us as parents.

Ian: Some people would say because you're not practitioners, the advice compared to a doctor is dangerous.

Stephanie: They could, but the medical industry kills about 18 000 people a year in hospitals for causes other than what they went there for. So, I'm not giving advice anyway. I give them my opinion as a parent and I make that really clear. If someone calls me and said 'oh, my child's got whooping cough, what will I do?' I'll say 'well, you know I'm not a practitioner, I'll tell you what I would do if I was you being a parent, but take it or leave it'. I will tell them then what I would do.

Ian: Ok, while we're talking about whooping cough, let's talk about immunisation. Children here in Australia get the triple antigen shot, isn't it? And that's for whooping cough, diphtheria and tetanus. What's your opinion on that? Because that's been around for 30-40 years now?

Stephanie: No, much longer than that, 60 plus years that one's been used en-masse. My opinion on all vaccination - it doesn't matter if it's that one or for measles or whatever - is that it is totally unnecessary.

Ian: Why?

Stephanie: Because there is no proof that it works. Not one shred of evidence that vaccination works. None.

Ian: Ok. But now I can't be the advocate for the other side here because I haven't got the necessary knowledge. But I know that they would scream at you for that, because they'd say they've done double-blind tests.

Stephanie: No, they can't say that because they haven't. Never done one. This is the only thing to come out of the drug company that has not had a double-blind placebo test.

Ian: Ok. I looked up a little bit in regards to the gardasil immunisation at the moment and that was said to be 25 000 double-blind placebo and a significant number of women got, came up positive who were in the placebo group and there wasn't a single case in the immunised group.

Stephanie: Case of what?

Ian: The virus creating pre-cancerous...

Stephanie: Well, it is far too early to tell for something like that. That's a load of rubbish that they would even say that that's been indicated from any trial. But the whole thing with medical studies to do with vaccination anyway, is that when they do the research they are only looking for antibody, the creation of an antibody level. So if they say, right, well, 80% got an antibody level from this vaccine, so it's effective, but that's not a clinical out in the public, out in the field trial. They do not know if that's going to stop cervical cancer at all. The whole gardasil thing is really,.. when you start reading the papers on it, they have made a very big leap to say that HPV virus causes cervical cancer. There is no proof of that and I would challenge anyone to really read the documentation. What they're saying is that 70% of people who have cervical cancer have HPV virus. But if you read on a little bit further it says that 70% of the entire population has HPV virus in them, and that will probably include you and I. But that doesn't mean that we're going to get cervical cancer.

Ian: What about the fact that we no longer have whooping cough, diphtheria.

Stephanie: We do.

Ian: Well, the numbers.. I've never come across a child that's died from it in my lifetime, whereas back in the 30's it was a real threat. Smallpox has ceased to exist.

Stephanie: Well, no it hasn't. See, people think these things are gone, but there's smallpox outbreaks in Africa at the moment. And smallpox is a very interesting one because smallpox is actually a skin disease.

Ian: The World Health Organisation declared smallpox extinct 20 years ago or so.

Stephanie: I know.

Ian: And I understand that the last outbreaks were in India and they went out there and they tracked them down, and they medicated and they helped and they supported them. They knocked on the last door and they found the last case. And it didn't flare up again. That's my understanding.

Stephanie: Well, I read something probably 3 or 4 years ago, it could be a little bit longer.

Ian: This is '83 this is supposed to have happened. Early 80's.

Stephanie: Well, I was reading something just a few short years ago about an outbreak of smallpox in Africa, one of the African countries. But the interesting thing with smallpox, people think the vaccination got rid of it, and it did not. In fact, the World Health Organisation stopped the use of the smallpox vaccine because it was causing so many cases of smallpox and side effects that they decided that instead of doing that they would just quarantine the people and only vaccinate the ring of people who were in immediate contact. As in only the people who lived in the home. Not even neighbours, just the people who lived in the home and they would quarantine them for a certain amount of time. And that's what the World Health Organisation says got rid of smallpox, not vaccination at all.

Ian: So they starved it out, just basically.

Stephanie: And whooping cough and all of these things, they've all gone up and down throughout history and over time they just peter out.

Ian: Why? But people say that immunisation is causing that.

Stephanie: It's a natural cycle. There is clear evidence with every disease that immunisation.. and it's not immunisation by the way, it's vaccination.

Ian: What about polio?

Stephanie: Polio is a very good case. It's actually my very favourite disease to talk about because in 1956 they brought the polio vaccine to Australia and New Zealand. It had already been used for a year or so in the United States and I think parts of Europe. They brought it here in '56 which coincidentally was the same year we got television. It was around the same time they did this and when the World Health Organisation brought it here they actually changed the diagnostic criteria for polio.
So, prior to /56 if you had severe headaches, nausea, diarrhoea, any or all paralysis - most people who had polio did not have paralysis - so, if you had any of those symptoms for more than 24 hours, you reported to the health department as a polio statistic. After '56, the World Health Organisation said well forget all those symptoms, you now have to be paralysed for 60 days in order to be reported to the health department.

Ian: Significantly more catastrophic condition.

Stephanie: As I said, only a small number of people actually got paralysed for that long. Some were paralysed for 30 days, some for 40, but even today, that's the diagnosis for polio. So, if you're paralysed for 59 days you haven't got polio.

Ian: Do people still get polio?

Stephanie: Yes.

Ian: How is it treated?

Stephanie: I'm not sure.

Ian: We don't have people in iron lungs anymore, do we?

Stephanie: No, they're mostly on asthma medication these days. Ventolin and all things like that. We do have polio but the interesting thing about those statistics, so prior to '56 - and I'm just pulling these numbers out of a hat - can't remember exactly, but it was something like a 1030 cases of polio prior to '56. After '56, it drops to a 100. And then everyone says, 'oh look what the vaccine did'. Well, it didn't. It did nothing. In fact, for a couple of years after there was a big spike in polio, but it just petered out like all the other diseases.

Ian: If it's not because of the vaccines, and that's what the pharmaceuticals want us to believe, so why did they die out? What's your argument for the reasons for all these diseases fading away?

Stephanie: Well it's not my argument but it's the argument put out there by people who've researched this, lots of natural health people, and some doctors by the way. [can't make out name] showed that the decrease in a lot of these diseases happened when the sanitation got cleaned up, when we got cleaner water, healthier food, and those are the sort of things supplied by nature to keep me well.

Ian: Ok, so better living conditions and general health, basically.

Stephanie: That's right. And nearly every disease that there's a vaccine for was more than 90% gone before the vaccination came in. So you have to look at what got rid of the 90%. Just looking at it, a holistic view of how the world operates, and microbes and animals and things, everything has a life and they come and go and new ones emerge, and that's what seems to happen.

Ian: I don't know much about it, can you educate me on the negative aspects of vaccination?

Stephanie: Well, the government says that they're safe and effective and neither of those things are true. They are not safe and that's really easy to determine on a couple of ways. One, because Japan stopped vaccinating little babies in the late 70's because they had a very high SIDS rate, one of the highest SIDS rates in the world, and straight away the SIDS rate dropped to nearly nothing. So SIDS was at 3 times the shots were given when babies ere very young, that's when the SIDS rate was and it's the same here in Australia. Just about every western country I've looked at the figures.

Ian: SIDS is Sudden Infant Death Syndrome for those who don't know.

Stephanie: And the second thing that is very glaring is countries where vaccination is compulsory, like the United States, Ireland, there's some countries that do have some compulsory vaccination, but they also have a compensation fund for people who are damaged from it, which straight away tells you that it is not safe if you get people damaged.
So, the US one has paid out about 2 billion dollars and most people think, well over there they just sue and get enormous amounts of money. Well, that's not true for this fund; they've set certain amounts that are fairly low, like if your child died you only get $25 000 dollars.

Ian: That's what a life's worth.

Stephanie: That's what a baby's life is worth. So, in America they will openly admit that vaccines cause damage and clearly they cause a lot of damage. The FDA, they estimate that only about 10% of vaccine reactions are even reported.

Ian: The argument is that yes, there is a negative reaction to a small number but that is outweighed by greater community good. Some might have heard the argument that by not maintaining vaccination for things like, let's say whooping cough, there is a real threat that whooping cough will come back and make a stronger resurgence, because there are not enough people out there to stop the transmission of it, whereas at the moment there might be a few rare cases; there's enough people breaking the transmission because they're immunised. That's the argument I've heard.

Stephanie: Ok, that argument actually flies right out the window when you look at the Japanese example. And that is, after they stopped vaccinating little babies there were a lot fewer children died from whooping cough that there were from SIDS, and they had an epidemic a couple of years after of whooping cough. But epidemics were happening in fully vaccinated populations all over the world, so, it's well documented that vaccination doesn't work. But they had an epidemic, I think about 2 years after they stopped vaccinating and it had actually moved much more into the age group that it was before vaccination. So it moved into the the 3-10 year age group and in that age group there were very few deaths from whooping cough and unless a child already has a compromised immune system they can cope with whooping cough. It's not pleasant. It's not a pleasant disease but they can cope with it and natural health tells us that then after they have had whooping cough that their lungs are much stronger. So it does have a benefit.

Ian: What do you think of big pharmaceutical companies?

Stephanie: I think that if they folded up tomorrow that there will be an enormous number of people who got well and survived. There's very few incidences where I think that they are even needed at all. And it saddens me when I see,.. we have a lot of elderly people live around here and I go and visit them and they take 10, 15 pills every morning. And some of those are just to combat the side effects of previous ones. In fact, an old neighbour of mine, he's passed away now, but he was on a lot of pills, I can't remember how many right now, but he had kidney failure so was rushed off to hospital. He got a new doctor that he'd never seen before at the hospital and told him that he wasn't having any of these pills, except one which I think was for blood pressure medication. And so they just took him off every other pill and he was on just that one, and he got better.
I haven't taken a pill in about 15 years and even then it was just a headache tablet because I was on Fraser Island and had already suffered through this headache for about 3 days and I thought that's enough, I've done all I can. I raised my children drug free.

Ian: So if someone's listening to this and they go, ok this is all well and good but how do I do it? How do I educate myself? How do I.., like there might be somebody out there who's thinking about having kids in the next couple of years and they think, well I'd like to at least explore this. How do they do that?

Stephanie: Well, they start reading books about natural health and about what nature intended for us, just like every other animal. If we don't live by nature's laws then we suffer the consequences of that. So, as I've said to my kids and friends too, all you have to do if you're faced with a decision about your health in particular, look at what nature intended; what's the best thing according to nature that you could be doing. If you don't want to do it, then that's fine; but just be ready for the consequences for that, because there will be some at some point. We mess around with nature, we do pay a price at some point.

Ian: I don't know what to do with myself. I'm speaking for people, as I know this is what goes through their minds. I don't know what to do and I've got a busy life and I've got to live my life and I trust a doctor because they've gone and done six years of education and they're trained and I trust them to be able to advise me.

Stephanie: Doctors are trained in illness; they are not trained in health. So, if you want to learn about health, why would you go to a doctor?

Ian: Because they know how to fix me when I'm sick.

Stephanie: Well, they know about sickness. But really, even a lot of doctors don't even know about sickness. They know a lot about prescribing pills. A few years ago the Doctor Weekly magazine - which is a subscribers only are doctors - did a survey and the people who responded said that they get 94% of their information from drug company sales people who travel around.

Ian: 94%

Stephanie: 94% of information after medical school. But, Dr Ian Brighthope, who is a Victorian doctor, started a nutritional college a few years ago, and he was saying that when he was in medical school, which was probably about 30 something years ago now, but he put up his hand in the first weeks of medical school to ask a question and he was told to put his hand down, don't even bother asking questions, learn what you got to learn and get through the exam. And that's it. They are not allowed to think outside of what they're being taught.

Ian: So it's exam answering, rather than education.

Stephanie: Exactly. Now, they get an education when they get out to be interns and in the field, but still, they are putting into practice what they've learnt, and things that have been passed down from whoever's teaching them in the field as well. So, not much is changing with the majority of them. There are doctors who very much support our health groups who do not vaccinate children anymore. They stay quiet behind the scenes because people like Brendan Nelson, the head of the AMA in NSW, he got onto, I think it was A Current Affair, and said that any doctor who speaks out against vaccination will be stricken from the register. So, you have to wonder why you have to threaten your own people about speaking up about something they believe in.

And another interesting experience that I had, I was being interviewed on ABC Radio once, this is probably going back close to 10 years now, when Dr Wooldridge was our federal health minister. And the person interviewing me was very much for vaccination and, I don't even know how I came to be on there, but I was supposed to have a debate with Dr Wooldridge And he [the interviewer] came on while I was waiting on the line before the interview or debate had started, and he said that Dr Wooldridge has refused to debate you and he won't even go on with you. I said that's really unfair, what's he scared of? Because this is a medical doctor and the head of our health. So, anyway, I asked the interviewer to go back and ask Dr Wooldridge what he was scared about. He came back on and said that Dr Wooldridge has agreed for you to speak, then he will speak after, but that's it.

Ian: But not to debate.

Stephanie: And so I agreed to that because I had no choice and I was on for probably about 3 to 4 minutes, and then Dr Wooldridge came on, and he got about 20-25 minutes airtime and said how dangerous people like me are and how we should have our children taken from us, because we're negligent, clearly. And the interviewer, who I said was very pro-vaccine, said at the end of it, he said, well if these groups that have sprung up all over the country are so dangerous, why don't you, as the health minister, just give parents the information and then these gorups will no longer exist. And this is what he said, he said studies have shown that when you give parents too much information about immunisation they will not do it.

Ian: So why would you want to do it then? You wouldn't. By definition, you've got some information that you don't want to do it. I wonder what the information is? It's stuff you know.

Stephanie: We only give people information about what we find, and mostly we find it in medical journals.

Ian: Do you have access to this list of information? What I'd like to do is put it up on the website attached to this podcast, links to places where people can do more research.

Stephanie: Yes, there's a lot of websites now. We don't have our own website because there are so many websites for people to go to and so many resources.

There's a very good DVD just been done. No, actually it's not new but only came to me fairly recently, done by a doctor in America who was an emergency room GP, used to vaccinate people with tetanus if you walked in with blood coming out of you, you got a tetanus shot. Anyway, she was a bit concerned because she was hearing little bits and pieces about vaccination being dangerous, so she actually set about to prove that everyone was wrong, that they aren't dangerous. So she decided she would only go to one source, and that was the Centers for Disease Control who makes decisions about what vaccines people get and all the material is by credible researchers, doctors, all referenced. So, she was there and go so much information she put a DVD together proving that vaccines aren't safe, they're not effective, and the government knows.

Ian: So why is the government still buying them and pushing them?

Stephanie: Because if any politician who spoke out, and there have been some who have spoken out against vaccination, have come to fairly quick ends in their political career. So it would be political suicide.

Ian: Couple of other things I want to cover with you. I want to talk about preservatives in the vaccines. I don't know much about them. Can you educate me to the preservative aspect of the vaccines?

Stephanie: Well, there's a number of preservatives that are used. The one that they point the most fingers at causing problems is thiomersal, which is a mercury derivative. But there's also aluminium in there as well.

Ian: This is to give shelf life. So that they can transport them to where they're going to be used, isn't it?

Stephanie: Well, that's one thing but I'm not sure. Well, the preservative, that's what the preservative does. But there are different functions, but there's a lot of other things besides preservatives, like formaldehyde. Formaldehyde should never even be coming into our bodies, mercury should never be coming into our bodies. If you call the poisons control people and ask how much mercury is safe to put in your body, they'll say none. Yet it is in some of these vaccines.

Ian: but doesn't mean it's toxic. You do have the ability to withstand some levels of toxins before they endanger us.

Stephanie: Well, mercury just accumulates in the body.

Ian: You can't excrete it.

Stephanie: No. I haven't read anything to say you can yet.

Ian: But it doesn't mean that - and again, I'm playing devil's advocate - in that maybe a small amount of ingestion of some potentially harmful things is ok so long as you don't accumulate too much over your life. In which case it would then manifest into something nasty. Everything is poisonous, it's only the quantity that causes it to be poisonous.

Stephanie: I don't completely agree with that.

Ian: If I put you into enough water you'll drown. Then it becomes poisonous.

Stephanie: Ok, I agree on that point, but this whole melamine thing in the milk in China is a very good example. A very, very small amount of melamine in the body causes kidney stones. And of course, in a littler baby the kidneys are so small that it's just a very very small amount. So, it wasn't even the amount, it was any.

Ian: Melamine's a plastic at the end of the day, so what is it doing in food?

Stephanie: That's right. But what's mercury doing in the human body, it's not supposed to be there.

Ian: Well, it's required as a preservative for vaccines. Do they have any other ways?

Stephanie: Yes, because they've taken it out of most vaccines.

Ian: Oh, ok.

There's very few now that still have mercury in it. There have been lots of congressional hearings about this in the United States - and I hate to be talking about America all the time - but unfortunately the Australian government - and it doesn't matter which political party - the government and the medical industry here just have their head in the sand about all this because they don't want to be sued, so they're not going to admit things like, well, they're pointing at it causing autism.
Now we have an autism epidemic in Australia. Just the other night on tv there was an ad for the autism groups trying to get funds and they had on there that 1 in 160 children in Australia have autism. That's an incredible epidemic, and it has been around since mass vaccination and the more vaccinations we are giving, the more autism we're getting. Now at the moment there is a bill before Congress in the United States to get a study done to compare vaccinated with unvaccinated children. Now this has been tried before and they've knocked it on the head all the time, saying that there's not enough unvaccinated children. But there is a Congress lady who's come up with 125 000 non-vaccinated children. They are the Amish community, the homeschooling community in the United States which is growing all the time because they actually have to vaccinate when they get into the school system over there, and the other community is a group of medical practitioners on the outskirts of Chicago. There's six different clinics, they've got over 30 000 children in those six clinics and they are a non-vaccinating clinic. So all the kids there do not have autism with the exception of a very few who have come to the centre after already being vaccinated elsewhere. So this lady has got 125 000 non-vaccinated children to compare.

Ian: To the rest of the population.

Stephanie: To a group they want to put forward as vaccinated children. But we know already there's no autism in the Amish community. That's been very well publicised. That's been brought out by some of these celebrities who have autistic children. Because over there it's actually 1 in 140 children have autism.

Ian: About three years ago, Professor Ian Frazer and his colleague, can't remember his name, developed the vaccine for cervical cancer.

Stephanie: For HPV virus.. something papillomavirus, human papillomavirus, I think.

Ian: Which is the pre-cursor to cervical cancer.

Stephanie: Supposedly.

Ian: He got Australian of the Year for that. He's a Brisbane boy, he lives here in Brisbane. That has been rolled out now around Australia and there are 15-26[year old] girls and women who are getting these 3 shots under name gardasil, we mentioned it earlier, and that is now rolling out around the world. And I've heard the US is insisting that if you come into the US you have to get it for migration purposes, and it's rolling out all over the world.
What's your thoughts about this? Because it's probably the biggest and most significant vaccination program we've seen in a long time.

Stephanie: Well, for one thing they're not going to know for 20 odd years if it's even doing anything, and secondly, as we discussed before, there's no proof that HPV causes cervical cancer. In the United States they've already been in excess of 18 deaths from the vaccine, that they've directly attributed to the vaccine, and remember that the FDA says only 10% of reactions are reported.. So, because what happens is a child will have a reaction to something and if they go back to the doctor who did it or go to an emergency room, you're counting on that person who sees you to say that that's a reaction. And you're also counting on the parent, it might be a week later, to say 'oh my child had a shot a week ago'. The parent mightn't be linking that up to being a vaccine reaction because most parents don't get to see the product insert that the drug companies tell you all the things that have happened in the trials. So, I'm really against it, the whole vaccine because they're playing guinea pigs with the next generations of breeding humans.

Ian: My daughter is 17 and she's had these shots, and I didn't even know she'd had them until she'd already had them. And I didn't know, it just happened, and I went, right, ok, fair enough, it's done; that's the way it is. I don't know. I don't know how I feel about any of this because I'm not educated well enough.

Stephanie: You should know, you're the parent of a child.

Ian: But it just slipped through.

Stephanie: Well, that's how they like it to happen. They like it just to slip on through. My daughter who is 18 didn't have it and quite a few of her friends didn't have it because I sent their mothers a lot of information, so they made an informed decision not to do that. It's one big experiment that's going on at the moment and when they were doing it last year, when they kicked it off early, all sorts of things were happening to a lot of girls being hospitalised, and the health minister at the time just came out and said 'oh girls get very emotional about shots'. What's that about. That's not taking side effects seriously at all. One girl was paralysed and hospitalised for over a week, and they're trying to say it's just all in the mind.

Ian: Now I know the medicos would say even if there is a little bit of damage, like you were talking about before, it is a price to be paid for not having cervical cancer in the future. It's a numbers game.

Stephanie: I know they say that. Well, they can say it's a numbers game but you know it's really interesting if, let's say, they say that 1 in 100 000 people who get that shot is going to die. Let's just say that that's the figure. So, you're the parent with that 100 000th kid and I say 'well, this is the one'. Are you going to say give it to my kid anyway?

Ian: Well you never know.

Stephanie: No, but let's just say that that is.

Ian: Well, it's a very difficult thing because my kid could also have the cervical cancer [mumbled] and there could be five times as many kids with that one. And that's the argument that's given across, that the numbers are larger for cervical cancer than they are for the damage given by any immunisation.

Stephanie: That's because they deny side effects, they deny the deaths that are happening, and there's no proof that the HPV virus even causes it. In fact, I was reading some research the other day that was saying that if you have had that vaccine after you already are infected with HPV virus it raises your risk of getting cancer by 44%.

Ian: So, if you're say in your mid-20's and you've already picked up the virus, it's dangerous to have the vaccine?

Stephanie: It's more dangerous. It raises your risk to 44%.

Ian: Because I know they're moving into the older age groups now, aren't they.

Stephanie: And the younger; to 9 year old children.

Ian: Wow. Ok. Now because it's not appropriate to go into all the facts and figures here, but all this is searchable?

Stephanie: Absolutely. So much information about gardasil and the dangers.

Ian: And you can give me a big chunk of those links?

Stephanie: Yep.

Ian: Ok, people can then go off and work through them elsewhere. Then they can do their own research.

Stephanie: That's what we want.

Ian: I want this to be a pre-cursor to them doing their own research and their own education.

Stephanie: So do we. That's what taking responsibility for your health is about, so when you are faced with something you get on there and you research it. I send out information about all of these things to people, but I also say go onto this site, particularly getting the dads to go onto particular sites to have a look because they'll often read things on the internet more than reading a bit of paper in front of them.

Ian: What are your thoughts about it being compulsory in so many ways, that you can't get into pre-schools and schools? I heard an unfortunate, terrible, case in New Zealand where a girl basically said no to a gardasil shot and the doctor pulled her to one side and said we understand that this what you think, and while they were having a discusssion, he jabbed her.

Stephanie: He should be locked up. That's criminal behaviour. That's assault.

Ian: Well, actually the parents had declined the permission slip.

Stephanie: So, that's assault. He should be locked up. That's what I think about that.

Ian: Ok, what about the compulsory aspect of it? Like I said, isn't it better to.. ok, if the system believes that for the greater good we need to make it compulsory.

Stephanie: Well, you have to look at the system and why it believes it. We change our beliefs all the time when we get more information. They are just beliefs, they are not really knowledge until you've actually experienced something yourself. So, we have lots of beliefs about lots of things, people used to believe that the earth was flat but we got more information, now we know it isn't. And until they can totally prove that vaccination is safe and effective then it should never be made compulsory. Never ever ever. And I know they can never prove that. They can never prove it, because it isn't.

Ian: How do people avoid the compulsory aspect of it?

Stephanie: It is not compulsory in Australia to vaccinate with anything.

Ian: It's not? It's not compulsory in Australia?

Stephanie: There is no compulsory vaccination in Australia.

Ian: So what about the US and places like that where they bring in compulsory, or if they're going to bring in compulsory vaccination in Australia?

Stephanie: Vaccination is compulsory in the United States and they're trying to stop it from being compulsory because so many children are being damaged. And the parents are left to pick up the tab at the end and their lives are forever altered because they have this damaged child. And we're just not talking about a child who.. we're talking about major things happening, like.. there's a lady here, a member of our group who's child is damaged and has severe epilepsy. This family's whole life revolves around this child being epileptic and having so many seizures. Their life is forever ever altered because they did that, they had their child vaccinated and didn't know. So, anyway, in Australia we do not have compulsory vaccination and we should never have it. It should always be a parent's right to make an informed decision. And unfortunately the majority of people who do vaccinate their children, or have their children vaccinated, don't make an informed decision; they make a decision based on fear and ignorance. And that's just not good enough. That's pretty negligent.

Ian: You said that you were raised this way.

Stephanie: I was raised to relatively natural way.

Ian: And you've just continued to educate yourself.

Stephanie: Yep. As I've had children I've.. as a mother I wanted to do the best for my kids so I did... unfortunately I didn't look into the vaccination issue with my first child because I didn't know there was an issue. I never knew there was any issue. I had this baby and I was told to bring the baby back at two months for its shots, had no idea what the shots were for, nothing, not a thing, I just did the obedient thing. And went and had that done. Now, luckily for my other three children, I didn't do that, I got wise after the fact.

Ian: What happened to the first child?

Stephanie: Well, he had major seizures and ended up.. from his first shots he had seizures and persistent crying. At his second lot of shots at four months he had those symptoms and a lot more, and he actually never thrived from the day of his four month shots. So he remained, he died at 15 months and he was still like a four month old baby. So he never progressed past that stage. So, but it was.. that was my wake up call to get back to taking responsibility. It wasn't until then that I knew there was any problem. But once I was aware of that, and we're talking back in the 70's, there was no internet. So, to find out information wasn't easy but I did come across some books and I happened to see a show on tv [Robert S. Mendelsohn on the Phil Donahue Show], occasionally I'd see a newspaper article, and little bits and started putting it all together, and to know that wasn't a good thing to do and I was never going to do it again.

Ian: And the three children who followed have never been vaccinated?

Stephanie: No, no vaccines and [redacted], who is 24, has not even ever had an antibiotic. [redacted] has had one dose of an antibiotic when he was two years old, he's now 22. I gave him one dose because he had bacterial pneumonia and so, I thought, give him a dose and see what happens. Well, his body started turning around straight away, he started getting well, so I just watched him.

Ian: So that one dose was enough to get him over the hump, to start recovering?

Stephanie: Exactly.

Ian: A bit like taking an aspirin so you can get a good night's rest so you can recover.

Stephanie: Yep. My daughter's 18 and she's never had any antibiotics either.

Ian: And the three of them got good health?

Stephanie: They have health determined by what they are doing to the immune systems at the time. But they were raised with good immune systems.

Ian: And they have the same parentage as the first child?

Stephanie: No.

Ian: No, the reasons I asked those private questions, and thank you for answering them, is there's a sequence there, and if it's the same, and you've got one strikingly different, there's something.

Stephanie: But the first child was not strikingly different until..

Ian: But that's my point. If there's nothing different until the shots come through then there's something profound compared to the other three.

Stephanie: But he was a very healthy, very happy little baby. At the first shots at two months old he was not happy for about a week, the best part of a week, and then he came good.

Ian: But a lot of kids get a little bit of a fever for the first day, we're told about this.

Stephanie: If your body's working properly when you've got toxins go in you should get a fever.

Ian: They all say that. They might get a bit cranky for a day or two, get the fever, then they all recover. That's what we're told.

Stephanie: Well, he wasn't just cranky. He did a lot of very shrill crying that wasn't regular baby crying.

Ian: Right, major distress.

Stephanie: And now I've found out that's actually the first sign of brain damage. It's unlike any cry or scream you would hear from, under any circumstances, from a little baby. And I've heard it one other time when I was in a room with a baby that had just been vaccinated. The mother had actually come to this other person's house with her three little boys, and the littlest one had just been vaccinated and it was doing the same thing. And I told her but she wasn't interested.

Ian: Any idea how that little child has turned out?

Stephanie: No, because I didn't really know them.

Ian: Ok, just wondering if you maybe heard anything a few years later, ok.

Stephanie: I didn't. I didn't really want to.

Ian: We tried to put this together way back in March and we had all sorts of things get in our way and we weren't able to do this recording. Since then, I've travelled overseas and you've travelled overseas, have you been doing your advocacy thing, has that been part of the travels?

Stephanie: No, not at all. I travelled to China. I'd been there twice before in 2002 and 2003 teaching English. So that's why I went there, but I did actually educate a lot of kids about natural health while I was there, and about the dangers of vaccination as well, which they were very surprised about.

Ian: I would think that China with their huge Daoist philosophy that's been around for years with acupuncture and moxa would not be as susceptible as we are in the west, or is that creeping in?

Stephanie: Oh no, they are big time, because they want to be just like the west. They have a bit of an inferiority complex really about their whole systems of doing a lot of things and, unfortunately, chinese medicine is going to be one of the casualties of that because they just embrace everything that the west puts out. So no, their kids, there's a lot of vaccination goes on, not as much as our kids, from what I can gather.

Ian: But the numbers are so huge over there, it's a lot of money.

Stephanie: A lot of money, a lot of money. And a lot of the drugs the vaccines are actually produced in China for American companies as well, and French companies. So yes, they are... I had 880 students the first year there and I let them all know about it for them to educate their parents.

Ian: Ok Stephanie, in order to wrap this up, how would you like to wrap it up, what would you like to say to anybody listening to this? If they're a parent now and like me have done the deed and it's too late, or to people who are yet to be parents.

Stephanie: Firstly, it is never too late because there's an ongoing lot of vaccines. There's 105 vaccines in the pipeline right now for parents, adults and children, so don't think it's ever too late, because it isn't. But just to become fully informed on things, make decisions based on education, not on fear. Because the whole medical industry revolves around us being fearful and not knowing that we can actually control whether we are getting sick or not. The time's going where we're thinking that there's all these germs ready out there waiting to attack us. We're now learning that we can keep our immune systems in good condition, or relatively good condition, and not get diseases, and that includes cervical cancer and a whole lot of other diseases.

So, and there's one book that I'd really love everyone to read and it's probably the most important health book that's been written for decades and it's called The China Study. And it's by a fellow by the name of T. Colin Campbell. And he's a very well respected researcher in the United States. He's actually the fellow who blew the whistle on the whole cholesterol deal, back in the early 70's. He was able to show how liver cancer comes about and he was actually able to control these rats getting liver cancer. A lot of them got liver cancer and then he played with their diets so the liver cancer got away and then he upped the animal protein in particular and the liver cancer came back. And he was playing with these rats. And so he decided that he would get this work published, and he's never ever had any problems getting anything published before over decades, and the major magazines wouldn't touch it because it was saying that animal protein was the major cause of cancers and heart disease and that included a lot of cancers.

Ian: Well, I'll actually dig that up on Amazon so people can link through to it.

Stephanie: We do sell it as well because it's such a valuable book and the vegetarian society sells it as well.

Ian: Have you got access to your site or email?

Stephanie: My email address which you've got. It's growingawareness@hotmail.com

Ian: You said you don't have an actual site?

Stephanie: Nope.

Ian: I'll just build a whole series of links on the site.

Stephanie: So just take responsibility for your health; don't rely on the medical industry or the food industry or the water board or any of these people. You've got to investigate the stuff yourself and see what nature intended.

[wrap up of interview omitted]

Source: Your Story Ep 29 : Stephanie. Vaccination, Health Education and Your Responsibility

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